00:03.76 — Niraj Ranjan Rout
Yes. So welcome, Jordan, to the podcast.
00:06.33 — Jordan Hooker
Thanks for having me.
00:08.48 — Niraj Ranjan Rout
Jordan, let’s start from the start. It would be great for everyone to know how you got interested in customer service and how you made this your calling.
00:26.74 — Jordan Hooker
It definitely was not the plan. I spent a few years post-college working in radio, doing news. I worked for a network where I was doing news every hour—an opportunity to do voice work that I hadn’t done before.
00:42.76 — Jordan Hooker
I’m a musician, as you can see from the instruments here. I’m used to being in front of people—talking and singing. I moved to Dallas from Tennessee hoping to get into a larger market.
01:04.73 — Jordan Hooker
No success. This was probably 2011 or 2012, and radio wasn’t doing great anyway. Through a family friend, I landed in a customer support seat for an early-stage startup working with nonprofits, and I quickly realized I really enjoyed it.
01:26.94 — Jordan Hooker
Getting on the phone with customers, walking through challenges, creating experiences—both before customers need support, and also when something doesn’t go right: how do you restore trust and confidence?
01:48.70 — Jordan Hooker
I also had a COO who invested a lot in me. That’s where I stuck. I’ve spent the last 12 years in customer support and customer experience, primarily for early-stage startups.
02:01.86 — Jordan Hooker
I spent a few years as a customer success manager at a larger company and didn’t enjoy it. I prefer the startup world—fast-paced, building from scratch.
02:14.59 — Jordan Hooker
For the last eight or so years, I’ve been running support organizations for early and mid-stage startups. I’m passionate about building great experiences and using customer learnings to drive business updates and product progress.
02:33.32 — Jordan Hooker
I’m also passionate about teaching everyone in the company—support or not—what it means to care about the customer. If that passion is there, everything else becomes easier.
03:01.81 — Niraj Ranjan Rout
Great background, Jordan. I’d love to get into Axwell—what you do there, and how your work has evolved.
03:04.75 — Jordan Hooker
Sure.
03:15.64 — Jordan Hooker
Axwell is focused in the healthcare data world. Our mission is to ensure clinicians can spend the most time with patients and serve them in the best way possible.
03:15.64 — Jordan Hooker
Our primary product is credentialing. We use automation to help hospitals and healthcare staffing organizations credential doctors and clinicians as quickly as possible. If you’re a physician affiliating with a hospital, you have to go through a very intense background and credentialing process.
04:06.09 — Jordan Hooker
Traditionally, credentialing offices would spend days or weeks calling other hospitals and organizations, collecting files via mail and fax, and building a complete folder to take to a credentialing committee for approval.
04:39.91 — Jordan Hooker
We’ve automated a significant portion of that. Credentialing offices send an invite to a clinician, the clinician provides some information, and our system pulls the rest via API. We’ve automated roughly 90% to 97% of those files.
05:07.77 — Jordan Hooker
Time to complete a file and get a clinician approved has dropped by about half in most cases.
05:18.67 — Jordan Hooker
Historically, it might take about 90 days from start to finish to get someone in front of patients. For most of our customers now, it’s much faster—better patient experience, better clinician experience, better hospital experience. And revenue starts sooner.
05:46.36 — Jordan Hooker
My role is building the experience on two sides.
05:55.62 — Jordan Hooker
For admins in credentialing offices using our tool: helping them accomplish what they need, and troubleshooting when something goes wrong.
06:07.91 — Jordan Hooker
For clinicians using our system: guiding them through the workflow end to end. If they leave the application without completing it, they often don’t come back. So my team provides white-glove support to get them from start to finish and submit everything.
06:42.60 — Jordan Hooker
That’s what I’m building at Axwell in our support organization.
06:47.60 — Niraj Ranjan Rout
So you have two key stakeholders: clinicians getting credentialed, and hospitals or organizations credentialing them. And your team supports both.
07:05.70 — Jordan Hooker
Correct.
07:11.65 — Niraj Ranjan Rout
How do you structure your team? Same folks supporting both, or do you split responsibilities?
07:22.24 — Jordan Hooker
It’s a strange model because it’s B2B, but also B2B-to-C. We support both sides connected to the same customer org.
07:37.67 — Jordan Hooker
Right now, we have the same team members supporting most things. We’re a Series B startup, so we run lean.
07:37.67 — Jordan Hooker
Tier one triage has two team members and resolves about 60% of tickets.
08:02.66 — Jordan Hooker
Tier two is support engineering, handling about 30%—more technical issues, digging deeper when needed.
08:17.86 — Jordan Hooker
The last 10% to 15% escalates to engineering outside support.
08:17.86 — Jordan Hooker
Long term, we may move to specialists for clinicians vs admins, but today everyone is cross-trained.
08:58.88 — Niraj Ranjan Rout
Jordan, can you hear me?
08:58.98 — Jordan Hooker
Got it. I can see you. Can you hear me?
00:01.74 — Niraj Ranjan Rout
Yeah.
00:04.89 — Jordan Hooker
We’re a Series B startup and have a lean team, so most of my team is cross-trained to support both admins and clinicians.
00:19.70 — Jordan Hooker
Tier one triage resolves about 60% of tickets.
00:36.52 — Jordan Hooker
Tier two support engineering handles about 30% and can dig deeper technically.
00:47.72 — Jordan Hooker
The last ~10% escalates to engineering outside support. Over time, we may specialize more, but for now this model works well.
01:16.84 — Niraj Ranjan Rout
When hiring support profiles, you need problem-solving and soft skills. How do you test and assess for both?
02:12.01 — Jordan Hooker
It’s absolutely a challenge. Often you’re looking for someone strong technically and strong on empathy and communication—sometimes that’s a unicorn.
02:42.51 — Jordan Hooker
I prioritize soft skills first. We can teach most technical skills. I’m looking for clarity, empathy, and communication—whether they explain things in a way that helps or confuses.
03:17.74 — Jordan Hooker
I also look for whether they can identify the “question under the question” and resolve things in a way that prevents follow-up confusion.
03:40.14 — Jordan Hooker
For tier one, I want people who can handle high volume, manage multiple conversations, and feel energized by that work.
04:11.02 — Jordan Hooker
For tier two, I look for someone who’s already spent time on the desk and has grown technical skills—this isn’t entry-level. They need customer-facing experience plus technical depth from day one.
04:49.80 — Niraj Ranjan Rout
Any learnings on assessing soft skills convincingly?
05:02.12 — Jordan Hooker
For technical assessment, I bring in additional resources since I’m a non-technical leader. We do some practical testing, but not hours of work. We assess quickly: can they explain it, show examples, talk through their thinking?
05:57.31 — Jordan Hooker
For soft skills, you can often tell through conversation and writing—how they communicate in interviews, over email, and how clearly they write.
06:36.54 — Jordan Hooker
I also watch whether they pause and listen. A strong support agent shouldn’t be forming an answer while the customer is still explaining. Interviews are nerve-wracking, so we give grace, but it shows up.
07:22.68 — Niraj Ranjan Rout
Switching gears—your consulting work. What mistakes do you spot quickly?
07:50.89 — Jordan Hooker
Two patterns. One: they don’t hire a senior leader early enough. Founders do support, then they hire too junior, and it never becomes a solid foundation.
08:37.84 — Jordan Hooker
If you want a strong foundation, bring in someone with demonstrated success building and scaling support early.
09:14.10 — Jordan Hooker
Otherwise you get cycles of promotions based on tenure, churn, re-hiring—and the root problem never gets fixed.
09:32.11 — Jordan Hooker
Second: tooling. Early-stage companies over-invest in complex tooling too early.
09:59.99 — Jordan Hooker
The priority early is simplicity—workflows and processes your team actually needs. Tools should grow with you.
10:13.51 — Jordan Hooker
Many teams start with Zendesk or Intercom because the package is attractive, then they build too much without expertise. Two years later, it’s tangled, and you’re forced to rebuild at a critical growth stage.
11:31.47 — Jordan Hooker
So the two biggest issues: hiring too junior of a leader too late, and investing too much in tooling too early.
11:45.93 — Niraj Ranjan Rout
How do you solve these—full reset or gradual?
11:53.49 — Jordan Hooker
It depends. Some need a full reset. Others need gradual change.
12:05.32 — Jordan Hooker
Many don’t realize how deep the issue is until they hear the recommendation to tear down and rebuild. Learning to have those conversations is key.
12:43.62 — Jordan Hooker
Some customers already know everything is broken. Those are easier—you can start immediately.
13:01.02 — Jordan Hooker
Typically we start with team interviews, customer interviews if possible, and then deep tool/config review: best practices, pain points, and where process changes are needed.
13:43.25 — Niraj Ranjan Rout
What’s the typical timeline to implement and get things stable?
13:53.03 — Jordan Hooker
Depends on how much damage was done and how much change the org can absorb.
14:18.27 — Jordan Hooker
If they’re cautious because of funding, growth, or runway, it can take longer.
14:43.87 — Jordan Hooker
But generally, you can build a solid foundation in about three to six months—depending on willingness to move fast, let go of “we’ve always done it this way,” and change what people are attached to.
15:36.55 — Niraj Ranjan Rout
Customer advisory boards—how to do them effectively?
15:50.18 — Jordan Hooker
Two aspects are critical. First: you have to do it. It’s uncomfortable, especially when you know things are wrong.
16:19.11 — Jordan Hooker
There’s also fear of putting customers together and having them compare notes—or consider other solutions. But you still need to do it.
16:38.00 — Jordan Hooker
Second: don’t be afraid to bring in challenging voices. Advisory boards are often filled with “friendly” customers. That limits change.
17:27.50 — Jordan Hooker
Third: don’t treat it like a checkbox. Act on feedback quickly and clearly. If you wait a year, customers won’t care. They want to see movement.
18:13.36 — Niraj Ranjan Rout
Lastly—AI and its impact on customer service.
18:34.60 — Jordan Hooker
AI has been both exciting and frustrating. A lot of tools are snake oil—shaky foundations, big promises, little delivery.
19:25.03 — Jordan Hooker
The diamonds in the rough are tools designed to augment humans, built by people who’ve actually worked in support.
19:55.26 — Jordan Hooker
When customers interact with AI, the experience should be as good as interacting with a human—brand voice matched, empathetic, and clear.
20:32.19 — Jordan Hooker
When money’s on the line or emotions are high, people want a human. AI should add value without removing that option.
21:02.25 — Jordan Hooker
I also believe in rolling it out slowly. Going slow helps you build something high quality without disrupting the ecosystem.
21:16.29 — Niraj Ranjan Rout
Have you found tools that meet that bar?
21:27.43 — Jordan Hooker
Yes. We use Intercom—we’re a brand new Intercom shop—and we’ve had a good experience since going live.
22:02.30 — Jordan Hooker
Yetto is another one: built by support professionals for support professionals.
22:15.39 — Jordan Hooker
Sinkly is strong for sentiment analysis and QA at scale. We can’t manually QA every conversation, so having something reliable there has been valuable.
22:54.57 — Niraj Ranjan Rout
That’s all the questions I had. Great talking to you.
23:02.44 — Jordan Hooker
Thanks so much for having me. This was a great conversation.
23:05.57 — Niraj Ranjan Rout
Thank you.
23:06.45 — Jordan Hooker
Thanks.
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